I am trying v2 for the first time. It has a significantly faster processing than v1 but the new modes for commercials detection (inc ComSkip) are impossibly slow for use on UK ITV. I think I need a new processor/mobo anyways, I currently have an AMD 5600+ and 6MB of RAM on Windows10. This is a dedicated computer for recording/processing HDTV, and TS Doctor seems to be in the most need for more power. Considering the capabilities of TS Doctor to use processor features, what would be the best suggestion for a good value system? It would be great if I could re-use my current mobo but I am prepared to buy a new one if necessary. Budget for a complete processor/mobo/RAM bundle would be >200 Euro. Thanks.
the detection is not very optimised, yet
so maybe there will be further improvements along the road, which will reduce the amount of time the analysis needs a lot
the new Video Analysis (VA) should already be faster than comskip, so you should be using the va instead ;)
what are you recording mostly -> do your recordings contain AC3 5.1 audio
then you should use the ac3 detection instead, cause if it works for the senders you record, then it's a lot faster than va anyways and maybe even more accurate
about a new system:
I would recommend you to switch to Intel
they are way more energy efficient and still bring more power than amd at the moment
still: it would be good to know which mobo you are using atm.
and do you want to keep your case?
what do you mean by > 200€?
An even remotely decent computer costs at least 200€, what is your budget/how much are you willing to pay at most?
which drive are you using to store/edit your movies from/to?
TSD most of all profits from a fast drive
Thanks for that info. I am already a little ahead of your suggestions.
I am in UK and only record BBC, ITV and Ch4. BBC has no commercials, and Ch4 usually works well with the AC3 detect mode but this doesn't always work and is not available for ITV. To give you an idea, a 2 hour recording of a film took nearly an hour to detect commercials using VA mode! The result weren't very accurate either. ITV should be easy because they have a logo in/out of the breaks.
I currently have a 5600+ processor so an AM2 socket mobo. It seems I cannot get any appreciably faster processor for this board. If I get a new mobo, what is the best processor for TSDoctor2? Can it use multi-cores? Is there any appreciable difference for video decoding/encoding between processor types? How much RAM can TSDoctor2 utilise? Power consumption is not a significant issue for me.
I would use my current case & PSU. I would pay up to 200 Euro max for a CPU/mobo/RAM bundle.
I have 2 HDD on a RAID 0 for the recordings (separate from system drive), so reasonably fast. As I said, the 'Save Clean' processing in TSD2 is now impressive and quite adequate for my needs.
Perhaps I will await the TSD2 program improvements and take it from there.
Thanks again for the info.
the doctor himself does not get benefits from multicores, although of course, they generally will run your system smoother and allow you to use other programs in parallel to the doc.
But hard disk speed has the biggest impact on processing time, before you think about a new processor and mobo, take a look at SSDs, used as a working area for the doc will surely give you a major kick.
sorry if I don't share your opinion
IMO you shouldn't (always) use SSDs and a raid should be fine
and Mam you are wrong -> take a look at your taskmanager
the TSD 2 profits from 2 cores
in VA it utiziles more than 25% of my 4 cores (main thread and one for the VA)
Cypheros made some improvements there which definitely helped
I'm not sure though if other parts of the programm use more than one core
but at least for the stream cleaning itself it shouldn't matter too much
anyways for the va a faster cpu than your current one will probably help a lot (it's ~10 years old after all)
1 hour for 2 hours of recording seems very slow to me
for me it usually takes way less time (I think, I should check that again) and my CPU is quite old (Intel quad core 2,66GHz, before the times of "Core i7, i5 and i3")
what would be good to know:
how much power can your psu deliver?
which case do you have? it should support micro ATXfor such a tight budget purchase (atx cases usually support microATX)
which cpu cooler do you have?
if you only use this pc for cutting and not for gaming/rendering you also can stick to intels onboard graphic cards, they are getting more and more decent and are fast enough for normal stuff
or do you have an external card already?
which OS are you using atm.?
one sample configuration:
Intel Core i3-4170 3,7GHz LGA1150
Team Group Elite Plus Series, schwarz, DDR3-1600, CL11 - 8 GB
Gigabyte GA-B85M-D2V, mATX
for ~207€ + 8€ delivery at hardwareversand.de (just an example)
http://www.hardwareversand.de/pcconfigurator/meinpc/1370858
(the price at the bottom is higher, because they will build your pc together if you use the konfigurator for around 30 bucks, if you add the items to your basket instead, it will be 207€)
this is the best if you don't want to get a pentium or celeron system and yes it's a bit more than 200€ and might cost even a bit more depending on were you live
you could get only 4gb of ram instead to save some money if needed
if you want to have 4 slots instead of 2 for later upgrades you could use this board: http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/179446/ASRock+B85M+Pro3%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+mATX.article?basket.changed=1 (http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/179446/ASRock+B85M+Pro3%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+mATX.article?basket.changed=1)
I guess you won't go over 8gb/16gb though, so it won't matter much
that board has 4 instead of just 2 ram slots
the problem is: much cheaper configurations won't allow raid or only provide sata 2 instead of sata 3, but you need those
maybe someone else find's better/cheaper configurations
Mostly I looked for boards on this one site
maybe I will look at more boards tomorrow
the cpu (4170) and the ram should be ok
Thanks for your thoughts Djfe.
I am sure the RAID is adequate, I have just cleaned a 6GB, 2hrs+ movie in less than 2 minutes whilst at the same time recording a new one off-air. I assume that video frames are not decoded for cleaning, so this is probably a major block for VA mode detection. Using multi cores is an obvious way to speed up processing by parallel decoding sequential frames in different cores. Whilst detecting commercials (VA mode) my processor is running near 100% (as per Task Mngr) with no indication of multi core use.
So my question remains unanswered - does the processor type have a major effect on H.265 decoding?
I emphasise that this computer is ONLY used for TV recording and processing.
cheers
Zitat von: PerryM am Dezember 30, 2015, 12:53:12
So my question remains unanswered - does the processor type have a major effect on H.265 decoding?
Yes, it does. However, if you use a high quality H.265 decoder (e. g. the one which is included in version 14/15 of Cyberlink PowerDVD), the playback will be flawless provided that your CPU and videocard fulfil certain hardware requirements:
CPU: Intel 4th generation (Haswell Refresh) Core i5 or above
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 5000, NVIDIA GeForce 9500GT or above
Memory: 2 GB
My six year old Intel Core i7-920 processor and Zotac Geforce GTX 295 videocard can play H.265 video files without any stuttering.
Unfortunately, I doubt that your AMD 5600+ won't suffice for H.265 playback, but give it a try.
Thanks ErichV
My system is quite capable of playing H.265 - I just tried an HDTV film and the processor was running about 15% capacity with no trace of stuttering (Windows Media Player). I have a very simple video card (Nvidia GForce 8500GT) but I doubt that it gives any hardware support for decoding.
Commercial detection is a much more onerous task - because it is having to decode the video frame and then analyse certain elements. We obviously also expect it to run much faster than real time.
FWIW
Sorry to break in ;D
but I have the impression, that you folks talk about different things.
"PerryM" speaks of "HDTV" which actually means 1080i or 720p resolution and H264 encoding.
"ErichV" has "UHDTV" in mind with 2460p and higher resolutions using the H265 encoding.
Perry, sorry to say, but your system is not even close to satisfy the needs for H265, almost any current system cant really keep up without stuttering yet. The next generation PCs and Videocards will surely be able to handle it more fluently, but currently they are simply too slow in any respect.
(and your PC is even one generation older, nice that it can play H264, but dont ever expect to do it more than that)
Sorry - meant to say H.264!
is the system I suggested actually ok for your budget?
it should run a lot faster than your current one
the cpu has 2 cores (4 Threads - Hyperthreading) and runs at 3,7GHz
@Mam and Erich
what do you think about the system?
Zitat von: Djfe am Dezember 30, 2015, 23:47:45
@Mam and Erich
what do you think about the system?
The system configuration you suggested meets the hardware requirements for video editing of H.264 video streams.
Yet, for H.265 encoding, it won't meet one's needs as Mam has already mentioned (neither the current system nor the small-budget system you offered).
Therefore, I would only invest into a new system which is capable of H.265 video processing.
Zitat von: Djfe am Dezember 30, 2015, 23:47:45
@Mam and Erich
what do you think about the system?
Yawn! 8)
Except if you suggest a Celeron or a Raspberry Pi you can use ANY current CPU / Mobo for running the Doc much faster than he does currently, so it does not really matter which one you pick. Intel is much more expensive, AMD more hungry for electricity, but even a 30€ Video Card of today's generation can handle H264 without any stress.
Just to end the story - I have just ordered a G3258 processor and Z97 mobo and 8GB ram. Should give plenty of speed, may be a few weeks to get it up and running but I'll come back and tell you how it works with the Dr!
sounds even better
you could overclock the pentium to around 4,5GHz, if you are familiar with that
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-b81-cheap-overclocking,3888.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-b81-cheap-overclocking,3888.html)
and even though the pentium doesn't have hyperthreading, that shouldn't be too big of a deal (especially if it's only for working with the doctor)
have fun with the new hardware ;)
Initial thoughts - somewhat confused!
Before updating the hardware, the 'Dr' program has had a couple of upgrades and my test movie (UK ITV HD from Freesat) had now processed the commercials removal (VA mode) in about 24 minutes, and the cut points have improved. So I then upgrade to the new mobo & processor (same hard drives). I reload all the software and rerun the tests and the comms removal reduces to about 10 minutes. This is a very useful (maybe decisive) reduction but curiously the resultant cut points are different! The correct points are very similar but both instances produce a couple of 'false' comm breaks that are quite different. I can see from the process window that the software uses the in-vision logo-bug and perhaps this 'disappears' into the background in a couple of occasions?
I then try turning up the processor speed from 3.4 to 4.2 MHz. I rerun the test and it now takes about 12 minutes! Again the 'extra' comm breaks are rather different. I turn it back to 3.4 MHz and again it takes about 12 mins. I then remember that between the first two tests on the new hardware I changed the decoder software - this clearly has a large effect on the process time - more than the processor speed!
The bottom line is that the hardware change is clearly worth it, and that if the false breaks were removed (by further improvements in the algorithms) then the software would be very useable. If it gets to the stage of the AC3 detect results than I would be a happy bunny!
Zitat von: PerryM am Januar 10, 2016, 21:06:19
If it gets to the stage of the AC3 detect results than I would be a happy bunny!
I'm afraid, you will have to stay a turtle :'(
The logo detection will never reach the accurancy of the AC3 detection, just because the logos are too much different and some stations really spend lots of efforts on animating them, shifting them or doing other nasty things with them that will make to program to fail (and if an update manages to keep up with them one day, they surely will modify them again so that the status quo is back.
This is a neverending chase between the rabbit and the hedgehog...
AC3 detection is "simple" compared to it. There is a definite switching "command" transmitted, cannot be missed or misinterpreted. And as long as the movie is in 5.1 and the ads are still in 2.0, there is no way it can fail.
Never mind - I appreciate the efforts.
One thing I didn't mention is that the cutting navigation for h.264 is much better with the new hardware. In particular, jumping to I frames now works well in both directions. On the old hardware it only worked in reverse. I'm using the same LAV decoder and the same video card, so only the processor can be effecting this.