Subtitles of TS files

Begonnen von astraion, Juli 14, 2012, 14:19:45

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astraion

Dear forum,
I have a recorded TS file in HD. In this file are included three pids with Subtitles in three different languages. TS DOCTOR gives the possibility to keep either of these subtitles in the final TS (I mean the TS file after clearing-editing), but the only program so far that can play these subtitles is VLC. If I try to convert the edited TS with the subtitles in another format with the tools of TS DOCTOR, i.e. in MKV, the program converts only the video-audio part but does not include the subtitles I have kept. So, Demuxing the file I saw tha that the subtitles archive is an .sup file. I tried with several tools to convert this file to more common formats, for example to .srt, but to no avail. So, the question is: How can I convert the TS file with the subtitles in another format without loosing the subtitles? Is there a possibility that in a future edition of TS DOCTOR the creators of the program can fix this?
Thank you all in advance!

Cypheros

Hi, DVB subtitels are a little bit more complicated than teletext subtitles. They are bitmaps and OCR software is needed zu convert it to a more common format like SRT. It's not possible yet but planed for a future version.

Reddwarf

This is something I have been struggling with a long time. The ConvertXToDVD was supposed to be able to convert HD recordings to DVD format without losing the subtitles, but there is a bug in the current version (v4) so it does not work properly. It is said to be corrected in version 5, but I have waited for the new version more than a year now.

Mam

actually, if you really want them, you can get them.  ;D
There is a little program called "SubRip" (! NOT SubRipper or something, just "SubRip") that does the job fairly good.

Make sure you find a fairly recent version at least V1.50B5 because only these can deal with HD size video pics.
Older versions will choke with "bitmap too large" error or something like this.

But, what you will have to learn fast then, is that OCR is a complicated and tedious thing to do. Once you start a movie, you will need to train the OCR engine to every letter (at least once) and sometimes even for every different font (eg italics) seperatly. This will be a huge amount of typing at the beginning. The more you type the faster it will "know" those chars and continue automatically.
So dont give up too early!
(on the bad side, keep in mind that re-training is needed for almost EVERY movie unless they use the same fonts)

Btw, one more hints for beginners: sometimes the program shows you a combination of letters. if these are not seperated by spaces correctly. Make sure you enter the correct phrase then! Eg: "iWAnt..." type W+A. Once you mistrain a letter/phrase, be prepared to get a VERY STRANGE OUTPUT.

aah, output... a last word: IT NEEDS MANUAL CHECKING AND CORRECTION! Dont expect the OCR to do miracles, even if trained correctly, it will do bad mistakes. The SRT surely needs manual checkings and corrections afterwards!

(To be short: THIS IS NOTHING FOR THE LAZY GUY!)

Reddwarf

I'v used SubRip a lot for ripping subtitles from dvd's and it does a fairly good job. I did not know that there is a version that can deal with HD subtitles, I have tried SupRip but it did not work for HD recordings. Thanks for the tip  :)

astraion

Thank you all for your time and useful suggestions. In the time that elapsed between my post and your replies I did some more research and I have found a FREE program that can convert in .mkv format (among others) the original .ts HD file with the subtitles that I have edited with TS DOCTOR without losing the subtitles(they are not included as an option but hard copied on the converted file). The program is called Freemake and can be downloaded from here:
http://www.freemake.com/free_video_converter/
I cannot understand how they do this, I mean how the do not need OCR, because the subtitles are in perfect Greek (this is something that Cypheros would be very interested to know, I suppose, in order to include such a technique to future releases of his fabulous program). The only problem is that if the original .ts file is not absolutely "pure" (I mean, if the transmission has innate problems that even TS DOCTOR cannot correct), than Freemake stops working at the point that it encounters the problem. Anyway, I am glad to share this information with all who might be interested.
Thank you all very much again!

Mam

Zitat von: astraion am Juli 17, 2012, 02:57:52
I cannot understand how they do this, I mean how the do not need OCR, because the subtitles are in perfect Greek (this is something that Cypheros would be very interested to know

The "how to" is very simple, they do nothing, they just copy over the stream with the bitmaps.
Sadly this does not help very much, the subs are then still graphics and not really resizable. What people want here is to convert them into readable and editable text formats. They players can then generate graphics on the fly and at any desired size.

The effect you describe now can be done with TS Doc too, just tell him, in the options, not to delete streams with subs (this is normally switched on). You will get the same effect on the output file then.

astraion

Dear Mam,
I know TS DOCTOR can keep the subtitle streams, if I choose to do so. But the output is again a .ts file. My problem was the conversion. If I say to TS DOCTOR to convert the edited .ts file with the subtitle stream to another format (for example to .mkv) than TS DOCTOR converts only the video/audio streams and leaves out the subtitle stream. Besides. The edited .ts file with the subtitle stream, as I said in my first post, was recognized and played only by one program (as far as I know), i.e. by VLC, whereas .mkv files including the copied bitmaps, as you said, that I have managed to create with Freemake (after I first edit them with TS DOCTOR) are played by almost every other relevant software. This is what I really wanted to do, for the time being. TS DOCTOR does not do this right now. Of course, it would be a very nice thing to convert the subtitles themselves to a more manageable format, i.e. srt, but this is time consuming and very difficult right now even for english, as I realize. I hope in the future there is going to be a good program for this kind of things.

Mam

Hmm, there is a slight misunderstanding in your thoughts...

There is no "conversion" involved when going from TS to MKV. Its more a unboxing/reboxing process because both of them are just container formats and TSDoc does not change the included streams at all. He just copies them over into the correct sequence.

So your real problem is that the playing programs wont recognize and honor (aka playback) those bitmapped subtitles streams. They dont even expect or search for them in MKV files. Maybe this type of subs is not even defined there, I dont know.
If TSDoc drops them at copytime, I assume, they dont make sense in MKV then.

But you can of course manually add them to the resulting file if you use the "mkvmerge" gui coming with the MKVToolNIX (downloadable and installable from within TSDoc).

Try it and see what happens.

astraion

Dear Mam,
Thank you for clearing things up in my mind about "conversion" from .ts to .mkv. 
Yes, aside from VLC, other programs I have tried so far  do not recognize the subtitle stream of a .ts file that I have edited with TSDoctor.
I assure you that I have already tried "mkvmerge gui" with the "MKVToolnix". They do not recognize the subtitle stream of the edited .ts file. I also tried this: I demuxed the edited .ts file with the appropriate tool provided by TSDoctor and I took a video and an audio stream and subtitles with the extension: .sup. After this, I tried to remux all three with the help of the aforementioned tools but the subtitles file (.sup) was rejected as non supported or as unrecognized or something like that.
Therefore, the only editing program as far as I know that can recognize the subtitle stream(s) of the edited .ts file and include it (actually copy it, as you explained to me in a previous post) to the .mkv file, is Freemake, as I said in a previous reply. To be honest, there is also another program that can recognize the subtitle stream of the .ts file. This is XMedia Recode (dowloadable from here for those interested: http://www.xmedia-recode.de/download.html). The problem with this program, though, is that in the output file the subtitles are hard copied always in the middle left of the visible screen, whereas this never happens with Freemake. This last editing and converting program places (copies) the subtitles always in the usual right position (middle low of the visible screen).
Anyway, thank you again Mam and all the other guys for your useful replies and suggestions!

verabgd

Dear astraion,

Zitat von: astraion am Juli 19, 2012, 22:04:37
Therefore, the only editing program as far as I know that can recognize the subtitle stream(s) of the edited .ts file and include it (actually copy it, as you explained to me in a previous post) to the .mkv file, is Freemake, as I said in a previous reply. To be honest, there is also another program that can recognize the subtitle stream of the .ts file. This is XMedia Recode (dowloadable from here for those interested: http://www.xmedia-recode.de/download.html). The problem with this program, though, is that in the output file the subtitles are hard copied always in the middle left of the visible screen, whereas this never happens with Freemake. This last editing and converting program places (copies) the subtitles always in the usual right position (middle low of the visible screen).


Thanks to your post I installed Freemake video converter and it can do what I was looking for months – to encoded video with burned subtitles used from HD TS file with DVB subtitles. Unfortunately I was able to encode only few minutes of video and then Freemake crashed. I tried different setting,  different videos, installed several older versions ... the last stable version in my case is 3.0.0.2 but this version render subtitles just like XMedia Recode – they are in the middle of the left side of the screen, also font is very small. All later version: 3.0.1.x as well as 3.0.2.x render subtitles OK but all of them keeps crashing.

Can you, please, let me know what version you have installed? I run Windows 7 64 bit.

I have lot of HD recordings with DVB subtitles and this program can do great job for my need – I want to avoid OCR process.

Thank you very much in advance.

jsa

I have been using ProjectX and SubtitleEdit nikse.dk to do OCR on DVB subtitles, and this actually works quite well, even though it is time consuming. It also works on h264 files, because you are running ProjectX from the command line, and you only want the subtitles.
There are 3 steps to the process:

  • Cut the .ts file in TSdoctor, keeping the DVB subtitle you want.
  • Use ProjectX from the command line to extract the subtitles to .son format. This format saves each subtitle in a .bmp file. The ini file settings are: SubtitlePanel.SubpictureColorModel=(1) 16 colours
    SubtitlePanel.SubtitleExportFormat=SON
    The command is:
    java -jar ProjectX.jar -ini X.ini -l -demux "file"
  • Open the .son file in SubtitleEdit. SE automatically starts the OCR import. When this is done, the subtitles can be saved in any format SE supports. I use .srt


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